Response From Bob To One Of My Videos Concerning The Doctrine Of The Rapture
I wanted to answer the idea that the first four seals in Revelation 5 are mans inhumanity to man amd not from heaven
ReplyI also believe that the verse Dr. Van Impe declares is the "Rapture" (Rev. Ch 4- v.1) is inaccurate. This verse merely describes when John is being taken to heaven, and he is then told of the future.
Please consider my understanding of a "Post Tribulation" Rapture, based on Jesus Christ's own words found in Matthew Ch 24 vs 4-31, Mark Ch13 vs 5-27 and Luke Ch 21 vs 8-28, as well as The Revelation. These three accounts all describe a similar end time scenario, followed by earthshaking events and then a "gathering of the elect".
I believe that the first four seals also accurately represent Jesus' prophecy described in these passages above.
In the book of The Revelation, the four seals are the first "visions" of the future given to John after Chapter 4 verse 1.
Also bear in mind that these four seals were not activated by angels (as is the case with the trumpets and bowls). The four seals are beckoned by "living beings", indicating that these seals are visions of man's own inhumanity to man, and not of heaven.
As a result, we can assume that the four seals have been in effect since John was told these things by Jesus Christ 1900 years ago.
The sixth seal (also described in Jesus Christ's passages in Matthew, Mark and Luke) then occurs, with the Rapture happening either during or after the sixth seal. These again are Jesus' words in Matthew, Mark and Luke.
Chapter seven, verse 14 of The Revelation tells us that the "Great Tribulation" is over, as John sees the multitudes in heaven in this verse.
Very importantly, this analysis not only describes a "Post Trib" Rapture, but may very well describe a "Pre Trib" Rapture, since the elect would have been taken before the trumpet and bowl tribulation events to come in later chapters.
In fact, one could make a point that this analysis also describes a "Mid Trib" Rapture as well, since the Rapture occurs between the 1900 year long "Great Tribulation" and the final devastating trumpet and bowl judgments to come.
Please give this some thought and let me know what you think...
All Things Are Of God: A Short Response
By Rick Gedeon
Thank you for your comments. Sorry I did not get back to you sooner. As for the seven seals, they are revealed by Jesus Christ in Matt. 24 as well as the other 2 gospels you mentioned. The book of Revelation is the revelation of Jesus Christ and this revelation was given to him by his Father. Ultimately all things are of God and through God(1Cor. and Is. chapters 40-48), and God has given Jesus to be supreme ruler(Lord) over all things. You can see this relationship in the shadow event of Joseph given all authority over Egypt by Pharaoh and that no one could lift there hand or foot over the land of Egypt, only Pharaoh would maintain the throne and be greater(Gen 41: 38-44). Jesus himself said his Father was greater than him in John 14:28. In Revelation chapter 5:1 John sees a vision of a scroll with 7 seals in the right hand of one who sat on the throne(God). So the events written in that scroll ultimately are coming from God. God gave this power over all principalities and powers to the one who is worthy to open and reveal these seals-Jesus Christ, the Lamp portrayed slain in heaven(verses7-8). If you are not familiar with this power of God read Is. 46:9-11:
"...For I am God and there is no other; I am God and their is none like me, DECLARING THE END FROM THE BEGINNING, AND FROM ANCIENT TIMES THINGS THAT ARE NOT YET DONE, SAYING, MY COUNCIL SHALL STAND, AND I WILL DO ALL MY PLEASURE, CALLING A BIRD OF PREY FROM THE EAST, THE MAN WHO EXECUTES MY COUNCIL FROM A FAR COUNTRY. INDEED I HAVE SPOKEN IT: I WILL BRING IT TO PASS. I HAVE PURPOSED IT; I WILL ALSO DO IT."
Notice also these words from the mouth of God in Is.45:6-7:
I am the Lord, and there is no other; I FORM LIGHT AND CREATE DARKNESS, I MAKE PEACE AND CREATE CALAMITY(EVIL). I THE LORD DO ALL THESE THINGS."
And in Amos 3:6 God testifies by his own mouth that:
"If a trumpet is blown in a city, will not the people be afraid. IF THERE IS CALAMITY IN A CITY. WILL NOT THE LORD HAVE DONE IT?"
This power to bring events to pass by God was never so obviously demonstrated when God said he raised a certain Pharaoh up for a specific purpose as the apostle Paul witnessed in Romans 9:17:
For the scripture says to the Pharaoh, "FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE HAVE I RAISED YOU UP, THAT I MIGHT SHOW MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MAY BE DECLARED IN ALL THE EARTH."
And in verses 18-21 Paul continues:
"Therefore he has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens. You will say to me then, 'Why does he still find fault? For who has resisted his will?" But indeed O man, who are you to reply against God? will the thing formed say to him who formed it, "Why have you made me like this?" DOES NOT THE POTTER HAVE POWER OVER THE CLAY, FROM THE SAME LUMP TO MAKE ONE VESSEL FOR HONOR AND ANOTHER FOR DISHONOR?"
In Job chapters 1 and 2 God could have said no to Satan's request to sift Job as wheat but God gave him the permission and set the bounds of what Satan could do to Job.
And I could go on and on. Ultimately these inhumanities to humanity in the first four seals I witness to you are ultimately from heaven, and no one can turn to the right hand or to the left in the end without the authority of God through Jesus. Proverbs 16:9 affirms this:
"A man's heart(mind) plans his way, BUT THE LORD DIRECTS HIS STEPS."
God is ultimately responsible for our current moral state. Read Romans 5:19:
"For as by one man's disobedience MANY(ALL) WERE MADE SINNERS..."
It plainly says God gave all mankind a sinful nature after the fall of Adam
But in the end Jesus Christ who was foreordained by God was to come to correct this as noted at the end of verse 19:
"... so also by one man's obedience MANY(ALL) WILL BE MADE RIGHTEOUS."
It was a Genius plan by God to put all men under sin so that through the one he foreordained to be the son of God-Jesus all could claim his sacrifice and receive life for the eons as Romans chapter 5:18 proclaims:
"Therefore as through one man's offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one man's righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life."
What if Eve ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and Adam refused and later found and ate of the tree of life? One would have received life for the eons and the other death for the eons. God knew before hand that the potential for man to sin was there so he put all men under sin and proved that men could not be righteous by choosing the peoples of Israel and giving them his Old Covenant Law of the 10 commandments(Ex. 34:28) which they utterly failed to keep and through the death of Jesus also came the death of that Old Covenant so both Gentile and Israelite could marry another(Jesus) through the New Covenant and allow God to have mercy on all as Romans 9-11 testifies with these words of Paul at the end of Romans 11:29-33:
"For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. For as you were once disobedient to God(Gentiles), yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience(Israel), even so these(Israel ) also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. FOR GOD HAS COMTTTED THEM ALL(THE WHOLE WORLD)TO DISOBEDIENCE, THAT HE MIGHT HAVE MERCY ON ALL. OH, THE DEPTH OF THE RICHES BOTH OF THE WISDOM AND KNOWLEDGE OF GOD! HOW UNSEARCHABLE ARE HIS JUDGEMENTS AND HIS WAYS PAST FINDING OUT!"
I may have digressed, but maybe this will make you think ultimately where all things are from(as a witness).
Now to the the seven seals:
I: False religion, especially false Christianity that have fought against each other and killed each other since Christ's first coming in Matt.24:4-5 and Rev. 6:1-2
II: Wars between the nations in Matt 24:6-7 and Rev. 6:3-4
III: Famines and pestilence in Mat. 24:7 and Rev. 6:5-6
IV: Sorrows or death of 1/4th of the worlds population as a result of these first 3 in Matt. 24:8 and Rev. 6:7-8 Just think of the millions upon millions of people who died in Europe and Asia as a result of the black death(beasts of the earth)!
V: Martyrdom of the saints from the great tribulation in Matt. 24:9 and Rev. 6:9-11
VI: Cosmic disturbances ending with the sign of the sun of man when the atmosphere is ripped open and Christ begins his return from another dimension in Matt. 24:29:30 and Rev. 6:12-17. The saints will be on the earth through the tribulation and the day of the Lord and see it with their own eyes as Jesus testified in Matt. 24:32-33. They will not be raptured into heaven, but will see the 1 visible return of Jesus Christ to the earth to gather them on earth and with his return will slaughter the armies of the Beast in the valley of Jehoshaphat in Matt. 24:31
VII: The revealing of the seven angels with seven trumpets with the first four to be natural disasters that will devastate the earth's ecosystem and cause a great falling away in which most traditional Christianity will cast off their faith and turn to a man as a god who they believe will save them but the fifth and sixth trumpet which shall rise from these natural disasters will wreck havoc on the earth resulting in the death of one third of mankind until the seventh trumpet is blown, and the return of Jesus will stop the world from committing suicide(Mat.24:21-22) I will post an article I did about 4 years ago about the truth of the Rapture. Just being a witness.